With all this Obama talk -- I found this cool site...
 

http://www.jjchandler.com/tombstone/

Using that site, I made this image...

You can also link to other sites that generate things like street signs, etc.

Seems useful.

Cheers.

-- TW

To ALL of you Obama "TALKERS"...do you offer anything helpful?
 

Do YOU have any ideas? Any suggestions on helping out? Or is it just all bashing and RANTS?


Don Alm, head RANTer and RAVEer, hasn't offered up a single useful suggestion in a decade of deriding and criticising the Gummit.

Listen, we get your political views, and this site has had about enough of them. What SOLUTIONS do you offer?

Other than buying a ton of bullets and hoarding food? Other than Wasting Time ponting out the critics, the clever and the useless?

So, instead of ranting and raving and (more than likely getting your posts zapped, cause I'm tired of hearing it)...why don't you guys offer America some suggestions that could help overcome the problems we face?

Or will it be the "sounds of silence" if you don't have a target to snipe at?

Gordon Jay Alexander

Re: With all this Obama talk -- I found this cool site...
 

Okay, Gordon, you're on. How about we begin by eliminating ALL services provided to illegal aliens? They now cost us a sum total in excess of 333 billion...yes, you heard that right...billion dollars a year for services that many legals in this country can't even get unless they're damned lucky (or unlucky, depending on the point of view).

How about we change the law that says anyone born in this country is automatically an American citizen. It's patently absurd, for one thing and, in regards to illegal aliens, it divides families and makes America and Americans out to be the bad guys.

We're too damned soft-hearted for our own good, truthfully, and those who wish to destroy us, use it against us time and time again. They rub our noses in any dirt they can find and ignore all the good that we do time and again in the media.

If you want to clean up our health care system, begin with cleaning house in the FDA and rein in the pharmaceuticals. Open our doors to some of the advanced cancer care that people who can afford it here go to Germany to get...even ex-president Ronald Reagan. You can expect Big Pharma to fight it tooth and nail because cancer is BIG PROFITS for them.

Let's give our doctors the tools they need to do their jobs right. It's disgraceful in this day and age for doctors to have virtually no training in basic health care such as nutrition and natural methods of treatment. It's long past time we took medicine out of the closet and looked at ALL sides.

You can begin by getting Big Pharma OUT of the doctor's offices (and our pockets)...they don't belong there. Doctors can get the information they need about new advances without visits from representatives and phone calls that berate them for not prescribing the latest medicines. Many good doctors are quitting because of the constant pressure and harrassment. Let's give them some needed relief.

Instead of a wall they will just tunnel under, how about a 'no trespassing zone'. Anyone caught wandering in it will be warning shot at and, if they run or try to get away, they will be shot...no questions asked at that point. End of problem.

Extreme, perhaps, but effective measures are better than watching a great country go down the tubes.

You asked. You received. More if you're interested.

Sandi Bowman

Unactionable & Actionable Suggestions
 

TW,

First, Capitalism died lo-o-o-ong ago. You cannot impose a bunch of rules onto businesses, and when those rules cause problems turn around and say, "capitalism and the free market have failed, we need more rules." That's just a Con pulled on people.

Gordon,

You want solutions? And there's nothing wrong with that. But Getting those solutions into play is another matter entirely. But here goes...

# 1: Like Sandi said, get Big Pharma OUT of controlling the medical industry via their congressional bribes and the help of the FDA.

Laws prohibiting the treating of cancer with anything other than approved chemo, radiation and surgery LIMIT research into it. MY experience shows more people died from Treatment of cancer than cancer and, often, they'd be better of not getting any Conventional Treatment at all.

BUT, those who enable the current state of affairs are the ones to remove it. As it's in their own interests to keep the status quo, it's unlikely that will change. (I place the American Medical Association in the above as well - as once you have a single body controlling anything you WILL have corruption.)

When you research the FDA and its Laws and the links with Big Pharma, it's quite Obvious what's going on.

# 2: Remove ALL income tax - be it derived from capital gain, interest, the exchanging of labor for money, time for money, services for money, the profit from goods for money. Income Tax is a Tax on your effort.

# 3: Understand that the USA is NOT - I repeat NOT - a democracy. It is a Constitutional Republic. The pollies on ALL sides keep talking about Democracy. But democracy is nothing more than Mob Rules. And the pollies Use your belief in it to pass rules they Claim the Majority Want. Thus usurping the Controls put into place by the Constitution.

Leno said something funny... ""We should give Iraq our Constitution, we aren't using it any more." It got laughs but was Bang on the money.

# 4: Remove the power given to The Fed (a Private organization) to Print money - and - dictate interest rates on that money they print (and create out of thin air). Which is to say, remove the idea of a Central Bank.

So far, these suggestion are summed up with...

Disband the Big Pharma cartel, the AMA Cartel, the IRS and the Central Bank

BUT. While these Suggestions would do much, you have three chances of getting them carried out - Buckley's, none and Slim - and Slim rode out of town.

If you love a good conspiracy... Kennedy ordered the Fed to Issue billions in Interest Free money (remember, the FED issues money to the govt and charges interest on it). So those who own the Fed certainly wouldn't like that. He also Ordered a Heap of military and CIA Out of Vietnam. Without such people present, the likelihood of an escalating war in the country would be greatly diminished - and again the central bankers who would benefit from such a war would be out of pocket. A month or so later he was assassinated by someone, that even the Blind Pew could see was Not Oswald.

So, IF you believe They are willing to assassinate a President who defies them, then any humble congressman isn't going to jeopardize their livelihood and go against them either - well, except Ron Paul who is but one voice and essentially ineffectual in getting things changed and who is nullified by intentionally not given air time.

So seeing as you cannot change the system. Your best option is to take action for Yourself.

# 1: Research the non AMA endorsed medical systems out there. Read Carl Loren, John Barron, Sam Bisen, Schuhltz, Eilaine Hollingsworth, cancertutor, soyonlineservice, no milk and not milk, the aids myth/hoax and so on and so forth. In short, take your health into your own hands.

# 2: Learn money management. Keep track of your incomings and outgoings. And adjust accordingly. Living Within your means. Screw the Big Screen TV if it means buying on credit. Make do with the el cheapo old fashioned non LCD (tube) TV. And then, avoid the News. Always put some of your income aside.

# 3: If you can make some CASH money, then do so. Your Official Income will be taxed against your will, but you won't change that. But you can do some small Cashies on the side if you have the time.

# 4: Do not pay with the ATM card. Withdraw cash from the bank and use that to buy what you need. The less electronic footprint you leave behind the better. Plus, when you see it leave your pocket you will be inclined to spend less. PLUS, by keeping some cash aside you help establish a small slush fund, in case you need it.

# 5: Buy an airrifle (.177 02 .22 calibre) and a .22 rimfire or 17HMR calibre rifle and learn to hunt your own meat. You can easily take rabbits and hares and jack rabbits and squirrels and birds with an airrifle and use the other rimfire for longer range and the 17HMR for larger animals as well. See this 46 second video on how to skin a squirrel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66AVwthXgMA (Yes, from start to finish the squirrel is skinned in less than a minute.)

# 6: If you can, grow some of your own food. You might not have a yard large enough to keep you totally supplied in fruits and vegetables year round, but it all helps.

Politically I offer no actionable solutions. I understand the Illusion of choice a Democratic Vote gives me, and choose NOT to vote - even though I am coerced into voting in Australia. Which is why I cross off the printed choices and write-in the likes of Homer Simpson, Fat Cat, Humphrey Bear, Darth Vader, Kramer, Bat Man, etc., and then vote for them. (So far, my Informal vote has not made a lick of difference to an election's outcome - proving my voting is a waste of my time.) But offer this final solution...

# 7: You have to take responsibility for your own wellbeing - health wise as well as financial. The medical industry is a Drug Selling industry. The Markets are designed to fleece your money. Manufactured food is a way for the likes of Monsanto to control entire populations via food additives and supplies of food itself (remember, Clinton wanted to pass a law preventing farmers keeping some of the previous seed crop harvest for planting the following year, and force them to buy all new seed each year from govt approved suppliers). So...

Look after your own health.
Look after your own money - for now and future.
Look after as much of your own food as you are able.
Adopt a survivalist/preparedness mentality.

In the US, learn Spanish. Don't argue mute points. Just do it.

Michael Ross

Gordon, saying NO, and doing nothing is a perfectly legitimate 'action'...
 

I, in turn, ask you, Gordon -- what would you do differently than what Obama is trying to do?

Are you (merely) taking the path of least resistance? Sitting back and assuming Obama must be on the right track?

Are you saying objecting to what Obama is doing is NOT a legitimate 'action' to take? Sure it is! My overarching 'action' would be to NOT try to SPEND our way into 'prosperity.' To me, that's sane -- and what he's attempting to do is (conversely) INsane.

So, yes -- the first thing I'd "do" is to NOT do what he's doing -- ie: FORCING a surprise financial COUP and RUSHING through a so-called stimulus bill (which is really a MONUMENTAL spending spree (read: every left-wing democrat's wet dream) with out ANY time for TRANSPARENCY, DISCUSSION, COMMITTEES, CONSIDERATION, LEGITIMATE BUDGETING (the numbers used for the 'projects' were pulled directly out of the lawmakers ASSES -- and NOT reality-based) -- or even enough time for ANYONE TO EVEN READ THE BILL!!!!!!!

That's the FIRST THING I'D "DO."

How about you, Gordon? Are you 100% 'on board' with what Obama is doing (to our country)?

I await your insight into the matter.

-- TW

To put it another way...
 

If I am being scammed, isn't it enough for me to try and NOT be scammed?

Must I also figure out or offer a proactive 'anti-scam' too?

Here's my evidence that this (what Obama claims is URGENT + NECESSARY) IS all a scam...

When Bush (+ Paulson) said we MUST pass the TARP measure IMMEDIATELY, 'we' did ($700 billion +).

Again, it was said that it MUST be passed NOW-NOW-NOW -- not a SECOND to lose!

Then we gave out HALF the $$$ (immediately).

Now, months later, we...

-- Have NOT had a financial MELTDOWN (a severe slowdown, yes -- but not an entire COLLAPSE of the entire economy)

and...

-- We are not even sure WHERE the initial $350 billion in TARP $$$ went!

So, again we were ASSURED that financial armagedon would take place IMMEDIATELY if we did not spend that $770-bil tarp $$$ --- yet, NO collapse months later, after only having spent HALF the $$$, and we don't even know where that half went to, exactly.

So, we can only conclude that the initial scare tactics were just a complete BLUFF.

Why should we believe this latest 'crisis' is not just another BLUFF?

I say we all take some time + DISCUSS + THINK ABOUT what to do -- and how/if we should spend a TRILLION+ dollars.

Let's put into IMing terms...

Is the best way to get started in IMing to BUY EVERY GURUs BIGGEST PACKAGE in a buying FRENZY???

Yet, that is EXACTLY what this 'stimulus' package is doing, imo.

As Dan Kennedy says, if you can't make money without money, then you can't make money WITH money -- as counterintuitive as that sounds.

As Reagan said -- the govt isn't the solution -- the govt is the problem.

America isn't just a place, a border, and a geographic SHAPE on a map. It is the manifestation of an IDEA -- a very SPECIFIC idea.

It is born out of a SPECIFIC cauldron.

We had the 'revolutionary' war and KILLED the red coats, to get rid of exactly what Obama is attempting to HOME GROW!

Govt that got OUT OF HAND!

That is pretty much the entire purpose of the constitution and the bill of rights -- to CODIFY the concept of LIMITED govt.!

It's not just freedom from OTHER govt's -- IT IS FREEDOM FROM OUR OWN GOVT.

It seems to me, and others, that Obama is missing that point!

And, when it comes to America, there almost is no other point!

-- TW

My 2 Suggestions on "what to do"...
 

1) Get down on your knees and pray to a Loving God....that HE will have Mercy on us!

2) Inform every person you can about the "Truth" of what the leaders of our country are REALLY trying to do!

Don Alm

Life is way too short... Peacefully please, lets look at the Obama story this way...
 

Guess Gordon and I are about the only one's here willing to give the Obama times a chance... Atleast I'm assuming so... :)

Think about the following for a moment or two... Who the H**L in the world would really want any part of...

The Hardest Job in the World
http://www.inglewoodtoday.com/opinio...the-world.html

Of course Many in business including Republicans are of the following opinions...

Obama Budget Wrong Prescription for Economic Recovery, Says U.S. Chamber
http://finchannel.com/index.php?opti...73&It emid=16

But since Obama is pretty much a done Deal for now... Live with it and Give it some Time! Focus your Energies in a more Positive direction...

Once again!
The POWER of Positive Thinking...
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6007460

In The Meantime And In Between Time by using Obama's name in your business related communications...

And by following the keyword phrase “Obama Entrepreneurs” it can Truly make you a nice little Fortune!

Works well for me... Piles of Great business model examples offline/online where Obama Entrepreneurs are doing exceptionally well and seem to have absolutely No problem with Obama... ;)

Another excellent Quick pick to add into the other Obama related Entrepreneurs threads I've commented on...

Simple freebie Obama business idea for anyone that just might be interested...

Some of these Entrepreneurial babies are available wholesale/retail and are Open to all kinds of misc. business negotiations & opportunities...

Top 20+ Barack Obama Inspired T-Shirts
http://tcritic.com/archives/top-ten-...ired-t-shirts/

Sorry, don't ever let politics get in the way of things... Much more important and better things to go after in Life...

Phil

Re: With all this Obama talk -- I found this cool site...
 

Within 4 years - all of America is going to live in caves. No?

Then whats the worst case scenario that is likely to happen?

I've still not managed to get a coherent answer about that from all the ranters. What is the worst you think is going to happen?

The tax may go up. Yes - but as I recall - John D. Rockefeller had once paid 79% tax too. So thats not something new for USA.

The $ may devalue and traveling may become expensive. Yes.

But what worse than that do you see happening?

Unemployment? What can you do to remain employed?
Recession? Even in recessions - people have become millionaires. What can you do to make more money even in a recession?

Illegal immigrant problem. They cost 333 billion $ to USA ever year. But how much value do they create? And what can you do to increase the value they create - without shooting them all? (Don't tell me none of them work and all of them are simply moochers. In fact, economists* say that by under-charging -- they create more value. If some one is willing to pay $10 for a product and an illegal immigrant does it for $6 - thats $4 of more value gained by the payer.)

* I've never understood economics perfectly - so don't hold that against me. But do check out an economics book to get a more "comprehensive" view on things. (I recommend Undercover Economist that I just started reading - even though I don't agree to everything it says.)

And as Michael says - take responsibility for yourself.

Learn how to manage money and take care of your own health. Don't rely on your government to do that for you.

Is $10,000 more for you this year enough to take care of all the tax hikes etc? If so - think HOW you can make that extra $10,000.

Don't pick the government as your excuse. Learn how to prosper even when times are bad. The rules aren't that different. That is what a true entrepreneur does. Creates value for the world while making himself richer. Anyone can earn money in a good market. But can you in a bad market?

Re: With all this Obama talk -- I found this cool site...
 

What is the worst that could happen?

Recession is the LEAST of the worries, Ankesh.

In fact, the recession doesn't really worry me much at all.

That is not what makes Obama a 'threat' to America, imo.

The worst that could happen is, the govt gets so powerful, the situation becomes *irreversible*.

THAT is the fear. -- and the fear is not unfounded, imo.

Freedom is a shaky thing -- it is NOT a given. And, like I said, the promise of "America" is not just freedom from other govt's -- it's also freedom from our OWN govt. THAT is what's becoming increasingly at stake here. If you don't live here, maybe you don't understand the feeling that's building up here (it's not just me). You have to be alert to the 'signals' -- the (sometimes subtle) warning signs that something's fishy. Imo, more and more, this Obama guy is NOT passing the smell test.

Sorry.

It's not the economy, so much as it is the apparent philosophical mindset of our new president. It belies a basic misunderstanding of the *idea* behind what America is -- at its core.

-- TW

Re: With all this Obama talk -- I found this cool site...
 

First a correction: the total is 338.3 billion per year illegal immigrants are costing us. Was a typo on my part...sorry.

This is OUR government at work...supporting those who break our laws and become, in effect, criminals by simply being here illegally. Want to know how they really repay us for our generosity? Take a look at these stats:

We spend $3,000,000.00 (that's three million of your tax dollars) a DAY to incarcerate illegal aliens. They comprise 30% of the prison population. Illegal aliens have a crime rate that is two and a half times that of legals in this country.

$200 BILLION dollars a year in suppressed wages for Americans are caused by the presence of illegal aliens. How far would that go to easing the current crisis, folks?

Ask yourself if we should have to support these criminals who don't belong here...and why in 'ell are we??? There's no way they can repay our investment with their 'willingness to work'. That argument went out the door years ago. Ask some of our legal citizens who are desperate for jobs...any jobs...if they're 'willing to work'...you'll get a resounding YES! Let's invest in Americans...not illegals regardless of where they came from. If they'd break one law to get here, more laws to stay here, more laws to work here, and many other laws while they're here, what makes anyone think that they'll magically turn out to be 'good citizens' and 'good for this country'? They're criminals...plain and simple. I can sympathize with their plight to some extent (I'm not heartless) but when it's them or us...I choose us.

Sandi Bowman

Re: With all this Obama talk -- I found this cool site...
 

I just wish more Americans would read Grapes of Wrath by John Steinback.

Nothing more to add on the topic because I'm an outsider.

Ankesh -- there is a growing # of people who are doubting certain things...
 

You mention Grapes of Wrath.

A fine book.

But now we can see the conditions that PROLONGED the Great Depression -- and some are coming to some revolutionary conclusions...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0060936428?...89&camp=211189

Maybe FDR made things WORSE, not better.

That school of thought is gaining steam in America -- with good reason, imo.

Double check your assumptions, perhaps.

-- TW

Fear, fear, coming out of your ears...
 

I look at all this another way.

The marketing power of FEAR.

One marketer whose writings I read regularly is Denny Hatch. Here are a couple very short excerpts from an article he wrote a couple years ago...

Headline: Fear: The Most Powerful Emotion on the Planet

A subheadline: Another Industry Based on Fear: Politics

You can read the whole article here... http://www.targetmarketingmag.com/ar...999/46783.html

Who is making you afraid? What do they gain from it?

Another question I would ask myself is: Do I really want to live my life lived in fear?

"A life lived in fear is a life half-lived." (A quote from a movie I saw a long time ago.)

Do you want to live a full life, or would you rather live a life "half-lived", full of fear?

Let me tell a quick story about the father of a friend of mine. My friend's father is in his 80s, and he lives out in the countryside of the state of Victoria, in Australia. It's the same place that recently has been ravaged by bush fires, which in the last month have killed over 700 people. (So it's no joke.)

My friend told me that his father was underwhelmed. The fires were "miles away", he told his son. Meaning - they were about 3 miles away from his house. (And bush fires can travel extremely fast.)

This is a man who doesn't live in fear! (He's a former Air Force man.)

My take is, you are on the receiving end of a very successful marketing campaign, designed to increase your fear. We've had many similar political marketing campaigns in recent years. Observe it, and learn from it.

There are still many "success stories" around, even in this recession. I recently reviewed some of them here - http://www.sowpub.com/forum/showthread.php?p=24012

...and I plan to post about some more in the upcoming months...

- Dien

Here's another (similar) book...
 

God or The Boomb It's Just The Same - only FEAR under another name
 

Listen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbbPkpzAipI (Max Q, The Way Of The World) A good song with little to no air play.

Whether it's god or the bomb its just the same, it's only fear under another name.

"You show us a new way you sound so sincere
How sweet it must be to be able to think so clear
But you are just another in a long line of fools

Giving us freedom
With a new set of rules"

From Only For Sheep http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFo6kmMZr3s

Makers vs Takers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYFzTyMKLhs

Michael Ross

Re: With all this Obama talk -- I found this cool site...
 

I just bought KeepCapitalismAlive.com

Re: Ankesh -- there is a growing # of people who are doubting certain things...
 

Thank You TW for viewing things from a republican / libertarian lense.

There is a dichtomy that rules all the societies of the world. The question is: Fairness vs Equality. Should the society be fair? Or should the society be equal?

If the society is fair all the time, it leads to monopoly. Because headstart is what matters in a fair society. It leads to - the rich gets richer.

On the other hand:

If the society only tries for equality - it leads to socialism. Which has been proven to not work.

USA is awesome because it only has 2 main political parties. One party stands for fairness. The other party stands for equality.

And whenever the republicans win - people say the rich will now get richer and that will be irreversible.
And whenever the democrats win - people say the country will now become a socialist country - and that will be irreversible.

USA hasn't gone to the dumps yet. And I don't see it going to the dumps ever. It'll always struggle with the dichtomy of fairness vs equality. But I don't see the catastrophic things happening that you think will happen - ie - irreversible socialism all over USA.

----

I recommended Grapes of Wrath only for getting a comprehensive perspective on the illegal immigrants problem. Not for a solution on the economy.

Re: With all this Obama talk -- I found this cool site...
 

I think the problem comes when people confuse the word 'equal' with the words 'the same as.'

What America promises is people being treated equally. Equal rights, for instance.

But that doesn't mean society should strive to make sure everyone is 'the same' as each other. That is impossible.

The US guarantees one's PURSUIT of happiness -- one's ability to PURSUE happiness -- in a relatively UNFETTERED way. But (of course) actually ATTAINING happiness is NOT guaranteed. That's the USA disclaimer -- which only make sense.

The govt should strive to make good on that promise (pursuit) -- and it should make sure all citizens are aware of the accomanying disclaimer -- while every one shall be equal -- they will NOT end up 'the same' as each other -- in terms of 'success' -- or any other measure.

Thus, there will always be haves and have nots -- a full spectrum of 'success.'

The govt cannot (because it's impossible), and SHOULD not (because it is UNfair + immoral) level THAT playing field, imo.

Robin Hood was a CROOK!

-- TW

Re: Little George and the Chocolate Factory
 

Gordon,

In this particular discussion, I feel like I have an advantage over you and probably everybody else on this board ... I spent 16 years as a government employee in Dade County (Miami), Florida.

I drove a bus. Then I was a transit instructor. I saw my little section of government do an incredible number of astonishingly stupid things, because money was never an issue.

Less than 15% of transit revenue came from fares. The rest came from local, state, and federal taxes. That money was taken away from the people who produced it and given to morons who produced a much bigger transit system at much bigger taxpayer expense ... and which produced even less income in the farebox.

I misspoke. I said money was never an issue. Actually, most top-level transit agency employees spent most of their work hours figuring out how to get more money. No, not thru the farebox, silly. More TAX dollars. Their mission was to squeeze more out of the residents of Casper, Wyoming and Worcester, Massachusetts, so they could expand the unused transit system in Miami, Florida.

Boondoggle. Let's move on.

George Bush was an idiot.

Barack Obama is just Little George.

When you take money from producers and give it to non-producers, you get non-production. I 100% guarantee you that Obama's "stimulus package" will stimulate a huge spurt of non-production.

But you asked for an idea, not a rant. At first I was hopeless, but I kept thinking about that over the weekend. And I have a long-term solution.

Beginning in 7th grade, and every 2 years after that, for as long as a child is in school, they would read and report on the book Economics in One Lesson, by Henry Hazlitt.

A 5th-grader would understand Hazlitt's book. It was published the year before I was born (1946), so it's old as hello. But it's also timeless. You can read reviews at Amazon.

It is a life-changer. If every kid grew up understanding how economics really works, our world and our future would change.

That is my solution.

Richard Dennis

Govt 'needing' more $$ analogy...
 

How does the govt needing more $$$ differ from someone coming over and sticking a gun in your ribs and robbing you?

The govt has no 'fear of God.'

If they 'need' more money, they merely go out and confiscate it (or print it).

Representation? No, not really. The (so-called "OUR") 'reps' were not even allowed to catch their breath enough to READ the most recent confiscatory 'legislation,' ie: the "stimulus" bill.

To my way of thinking, that's $800+ BILLION of *NON-representative* taxation.

The govt opened its checkbook -- which is opening MY checkbook... HOW?

By sticking a gun in my (and your) ribs -- that's how.

It's as simple (and as sickening) as that.

-- TW

Ankesh... This says it PERFECTLY!...
 

http://www.usnews.com/articles/opini...stitution.html

-- TW

TW... This says it PERFECTLY!... Too...
 

TW,

When it comes to the writings of journalists and the media in these wonderful times...

It's always a Great little excercise and quite interesting to say the least, to readup on them... :)

In this case lets make a quick Googling quess and say... Heather Higgins republican...

Answer is... Drum roll please...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c...G=Search&meta=

Make sure you Carefully read through atleast the top 10 Google results...

And of course Heather Higgins had absolutely no hidden agenda in writing that article or opinion, right? ;)

Just my take on things...

Phil

No, I didn't look that up first... but...
 

The article was in the *opinion* section, so I knew it was coming from one particular angle -- but I also knew it wasn't supposed to be unbiased reporting, which is why it was under the editorial/commentary banner. That's full disclosure, as far as I'm concerned. The biased quotient was in plain view, yes?

Being biased doesn't make it (necessarily) wrong/incorrect, either.

What else do you expect to be in the opinion page? Opinion = bias... no?

Analogy: As with google -- the natural results go in one section, and the 'sponsored' results go in ANOTHER section. The sponsored results are 'tilted' via BRIBES (ad revenue). That makes them agenda driven (profit is the agenda in this case) -- but it doesn't make them useless or evil or even 'wrong/incorrect.' It only means they need to be clearly marked as being in a different section. The article I posted WAS clearly in the Opinion section.

-- TW

Re: No, I didn't look that up irst... but...
 

I think everything is biased. There can't be a piece of writing that isn't biased. Not possible.

So that wasn't my problem with the article you shared TW. My problem was innaccuracies. Let me just note down one of the innaccuracies.
Emphasis mine. America wasn't the first democracy. But whoever believes that it is the first democracy has no historical perspective.

Now go back in history. And see why the other democracies failed. And you'll find that it was because either the society tried to be fair all the time. Or it tried for equality all the time.

As an individual, I demand fairness. I'm a libertarian at heart. But I can see the big picture. If the society is fair all the time, it will break down. Because you can't have a hand with 4 average sized fingers and one finger 3 feet long. (Concurrently, you can't have a hand with all the fingers exactly similar. A balance has to be found.)

Oh - and if the constitution was perfect - it would never have required amendments.

And as my fav humourist says:


You may personally not like it. But you have to understand that if the society doesn't try to balance itself by trying to bring equality some of the time, it will break down.

Your passion is good TW. But you have to try to figure out how to make the best of things when the society tries to go the equality way for some time. Instead of spending all your energy in talking about fairness and just getting frustrated. The time for fairness will come too.

Screw Fair & Equal...
 

Ankesh,

Thanks for trying to elucidate what you Mean.

"America wasn't the first democracy. But whoever believes that it is the first democracy has no historical perspective."

YOU had better check your Facts. America is NOT a democracy. And it Never was - by America I mean the USA. What it is, is, a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC whose Citizens are protected by written Laws - regardless of what the Mob wants.

Democracy is Mob Rules. Plain and simple. If You think the USA is a Democracy you, like the tens of millions of Americans, have bought into it, because of its incessant repeating by the Puppet Leaders.

Onward.

Fair?

I am uttering a bunch of expletives under my breath.

Fair indeed.

ANY time someone says something about Fair, you are listening to talk about taking from the productive and giving to the non productive.

There is NOTHING fair in taking from one person Against Their Will via some form of Coercion and then Giving the fruits of that theft to someone (anyone) else.

Whenever you hear anyone talk about Equal you can be sure you're going to suffer a Great INEQUALITY as someone receives more favoritism than someone else. Again, it's usually the Productive getting screwed over.

Both words - fair and equal - are standards from the bleeding heart liberals. Used to steal from the productive to give to the non productive, used to help foister liberal Projects that couldn't stand on their own without the so-called Fairness / Equality deals.

I suggest you read - and think about - the story of Harrison Bergeron which can be seen here http://instruct.westvalley.edu/lafave/hb.html because THAT is what all the Affirmative Action and Forced Diversity programs and other liberal equality BS leads to.

And frankly, I am fed up with it all.

I suggest you also read The Fountainhead. And you'll see how the Groups that Wesley Mooch creates to undermine true talent and hold aloft talentless drivel as something to aspire to, is reflected in our world today.

Read the Wikipedia Page about that "kissed a girl" singer. Then scratch your head how people could make a big deal out of a nobody without a track record of anything. Wool over eyes. While people who can actually write lyrics and music and create vocal melodies and actual music are Ignored. Ignored in favor of meaningless sex up nobodies who can't sing, dance, act, write music or lyrics or anything.

People are not now, nor have they ever been Equal. People have varying talents and abilities. You cannot make them equal. And taking from one to help Equal the other is not fair.

Michael Ross

Re: No, I didn't look that up first... but...
 

Are you saying don't kick the rapist in the shins?

You seem to be advocating 'equality.' That's a nice ideal, I agree. But, the only way to make it a reality is through artificially synthasized FORCE.

And where should that FORCE come from? The govt.? What exact SHAPE should the 'equality' take? Who decides what's 'equal' or to what degree everyone should be 'equal?' Congress?

Are people who object to being FORCED to give up what they have (because things aren't 'equal' enough), "GREEDY?"

Is it GREED that has made some 'have' more than others?

If so, I ask you (or anyone who makes the 'greed' argument) -- what couch do you have at home? Is it the cheapest couch there is? Do you REALLY need a couch at all? There are people who don't even have ANY couch, you know. Wouldn't you be less 'greedy' if you were to take the money you spent on your couch, and give that $$ to someone else who doesn't even have FOOD?!? How about your TV -- do you have a tv? In fact, if you own ANYTHING that is not BARE MINIMUM, aren't you being 'greedy?' If you have more than even ONE other person does, aren't you enjoying your 'riches' at the EXPENSE of another citizen? Aren't YOU a part of the UNequality 'problem?'

Where does the attempt to FORCE equality on REALITY (which is always -- naturally -- UNequal) end?

It's a spectrum -- and a slippery slope.

Not to mention the crimp such artificial FORCES have on human nature. Why should I try to do 'better' (excel) when I know the govt. will make me equal to everyone else whether I excel OR NOT?

It is not the role of the govt to change market realities in arbitrary (or ANY) ways!

Yes, the constitution can go through changes -- changes to make it more STABLE in its ONE PROMISE -- and that promise is very SPECIFIC... the gov't shall be LIMITED.

Obama seems not to want to play the chess game to make the game better -- he wants to kick the whole table over and start another game that isn't even chess at all. He wants to change (or subvert) the entire BASIC intent of the FOUNDATION of the nation. And that basic promise is [or, is SUPPOSED to be], again, LIMITED govt. He's not headed toward that end of the spectrum at all. He's barelling as fast as he can toward the other end of the spectrum. I pray it's not going to work -- and he will be stopped (politically) or slowed down A LOT. If not, he will RUIN the country for DECADES to come, imo.

-- TW

Obama to Entrepreneurs... Just for your info whether you like it or not...
 

Apply caution, think out of the box and who really knows...

Just maybe Obama... :D

These uncertain Global economic times are Full of interesting money making opportunities if you're a Thinker who's into a little Risk taking...

Remember, waking up each morning Definitely has it's Risks too..

Poll: Obama's rating at all-time high
NBC/WSJ poll shows gap between popularity of president and his policies
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29493021

Obama Says Now May Be Good Time to Invest in Stocks... ;)
http://www.google.com/search?q=Obama...fficial&tab=nw

Phil

Re: Screw Fair & Equal...
 

>And taking from one to help Equal the other is not fair.

Yes that is not fair. Fairness is the opposite of equality.

Not sure how I couldn't convey that.

Fairness the opposite of equality...
 

That's an interesting viewpoint -- I'll have to ponder that one for a while.

Somehow I think America stands more for fairness, than equality, perhaps.

We would sooner let a murderer go free, than to convict him based on evidence that was gathered illegally, for instance. That is not the case in other counties -- the UK, for example.

-- TW

Re: No, I didn't look that up first... but...
 

I don't know where I ever said that.


No I don't. I'm not advocating equality.

I tried to explain *why* a stable society swings towards equality from time to time. But I don't think I'm doing a good job of it. And its a tough thing to do - because when it comes to religion and politics - people - including me - always seem to hear what they want to hear.

I tried to give the same amount of ink to equality as to fairness. But yet you thought I'm advocating equality.

If I'm advocating anything - I'm advocating balance.

Don't kick the rapist in the shins?...
 

Don't fight it? Just try to relax and go with it?

I'm more the 'stand in front of the tank' (plus yelling + screaming) type, when I see the injustice being done here.

-- TW

The use of the words Fair & Equal result in unfairness and inequality
 

Fairness, fair, equal, equality and any variation on those words and their USE, indicates someone is about to get screwed over in Favor of someone else.

A Construction Site Foreman is walking around with a Subby Supervisor pointing out things that need to be re-done. The Supervisor is bemoaning that "it's not fair."

Fair?

According to Whom?

Is it fair that the Foreman should pay to have work finished Correctly when the Supervisor's Crew didn't get it right the first time?

Is it fair the Supervisor's Crew should work for free fixing something that had been let go already?

I leave you to decide for yourself.

It's the USE of the words that is the give away.

The words Fair and Equal are used by those to Justify their infringement upon your property rights.

The Oz Govt Leader - who strangely is called Primeminister Rudd (Kevin Rudd) by the media while the former leader while in power was referred to as Mr Howard by the media and not Primeminister Howard - has said he will make a tax system that is Fair To All, and other things that are Fair to all as well. He's used terms like Fairer tool.

Politicians using such words and others words and terms like The Greater Good, the good of all, common good and so on, should send off ALARM BELLS. Because it means more govt restrictions, controls, and screwing over of people.

In Govt, Fair and Equal are one and the same. It is deemed Fair to screw over people to Force Equality (which is really inequality) onto people.

Equal Rights (gay rights, black rights, women's rights, etc.) should be renamed Special Rights For Some.

In truth, we Should start with Individual Rights. But the govt cannot do that otherwise it would be seen that all those Special Rights are to the detriment of other individuals.

There is Right. There is wrong. Fairness (the use of the word to describe something) is subjective depending on who is using it - as things stand - and it is currently used to screw over someone in favor of someone else.

Michael Ross

A suggestion that COULD save us!
 

1) Contact as many Congressmen (your Represenatatives)....yours and others, including the Prez....tell them to ELIMINATE the CAPITAL GAINS TAX FOR ONE YEAR!

That will give people "HOPE" that there might be a chance for our economy to be saved. The "Investors" in our country might see that the Obama Administration is NOT trying to Penalize the "Producers" of our country and, the Stock Market might start going back UP!

Just start contacting Congressmen BEGGING them to eliminate the Capital Gains Tax for 12 months....as a "Show of Faith" in our Capitalist System.

If the "Free-Falling" market were to start going up...confidence would begin to come back. NO Cap Gains Tax has been PROVEN to be an economic Stimulus.

Throwing money at big corps is just throwing money away. Our country has thrown trillions at our Education System and Poverty...and our schools continue to go down....and there are still jillions in poverty.

Throwing money has never succeeded.

2) While you're contacting these "Representatives" of us...tell them also to GET RID OF THE 9,000 "EARMARKS" IN THE SO-CALLED, "STIMULUS BILL"!

THESE ARE TOTAL "PORK" AND DO NOTHING FOR THE ECONOMY....however, they DO help the Politicians get re-elected....so....the chance of those getting knocked out is slim and none.

Don Alm

Re: With all this Obama talk -- I found this cool site...
 

We need to DEMAND that they eliminate additions of any type to any billl not DIRECTLY RELATED to the bill in question. This would eliminate the pork barrel thing, simplify the bills thus making passage or not faster, and ease the gobbledegook and thus storage needs of the government. SIMPLIFY to be maximally effective.

It's long past time we brought government, Congress, et al into the 21st century and got rid of out-moded methods that produced the mess we're in now. If a pork is important, it should be voted on SEPARATELY in it's own mini-bill...otherwise it doesn't belong before Congress. No combination bills to confuse the issue and force excessive, and often detrimental to our interests, compromises.

Instead of endless bantering about on a bill (including pork bills which, hopefully, will mostly disappear) there should be ONE presenter of the Pro side, one presenter for the con side, and then Congress should vote aye or nay and get the job done.

Sandi Bowman

They should also make THIS a law...
 

Before each vote, all members of congress should be made to swear under oath that they HAVE (indeed) actuallty READ the bill they are voting on.

-- TW

Re: Obama to Entrepreneurs... Just for your info whether you like it or not...
 

Right! Buy stock in whatever companies the government is about to invest in.. then sell as soon as the taxpayer money pushes the value up.

The Wall Street Journal published a scary article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123629969453946717.html

Mr. Obama's $3.6 trillion budget blueprint, by his own admission, redefines the role of government in our economy and society. The budget more than doubles the national debt held by the public, adding more to the debt than all previous presidents -- from George Washington to George W. Bush -- combined.

The cost of transitioning to Communism seems to be pretty steep. Sorry I don't have answers to all our countries problems, but I would say that maybe not making things worse would be a good start. Deficit spending that exceeds that of every President in our history combined?!? Just the though of that is mind boggling.

Perhaps letting the economy run it's course would be a better solution. Necessity is the mother of invention - entrepreneurs, business owners, anyone with ambition will find products and services to meet current needs, and will grow and provide jobs, income, and grease the wheels of our economy. It seems like a stupid idea to take away any incentive for people and businesses to make money (ie: much higher taxes), and instead try to make trillions of dollars trickle down from the White House to lower government institutions hoping that some of it will eventually make it to job creation at some level.

Sorry, now you've got me ranting. I just hope we survive the next 3 1/2 years.