Was Robin Hood a good guy?

Steve, as I recall, the saying you're referring to goes thus:

Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

I did NOT mean to imply that it was right to steal from someone to feed one who is starving. I was merely asking questions. Personally, I believe begging would be better than stealing if push came to shove. Neither being necessary would be best, of course, because then we'd be living in a kinder, gentler, world.

In an ideal world, there'd be no need for coveting what another has, no need for wars (which is just a variation of the theme on a larger scale), and so on. Instead of fighting, cooperation should be the name of the game for the good of all. No, I'm not talking about communism either (which is just a variant of the old rob peter to pay paul story). Cooperation with one another to achieve individual development and goals is the best model for a successful, sustainable, community, IMHO.

Sandi Bowman

Forgive me if I am mistaken but I don't remember Robin stealing from the "rich" as the story is often related. He stole from the government only what they had stolen (taxed) from the people. Yes I believe the argument could be make in favor of Robin.

[Ankesh]

Thanks all.

To fully understand Property Rights we first need to grasp certain definitions.

Property: What is earned, made, created, bought, inherited, given, trade for and already owned, all without coercion.

Infringe: Take, damage and/or control the use of, without uncoerced permission.

With these two definitions we now have Property Rights as...

What I earn, make, create, buy, inherit, am given, trade for and already own, all without coercion, is My property and no person shall infringe upon it.

A Violation of an individual's Property Rights is Wrong.

- Michael Ross

I've got to say - over the years - Michael Ross has got into my head

You have to protect property rights at all costs. Thus stealing is bad no matter what the reasons for it are.

The kicker that helps: You never know what the results of your deeds will be.

One may think that he is saving a 1000 people by stealing from people who won't miss it. But what if - out of those 1000 - Hitler arises?

Because you never know the end result, its necessary to have a fixed set of rules that should be followed all the time. And the fairest rules are based on "Protecting Property Rights."

Disclosure: I'm guilty of not following the rules all the time too...

Sandi,

Thanks for your comments.

WARS are caused by governments. Right now there is never a Need for war, but they happen anyway.

There is nothing wrong with Coveting, as long as you do not take Wrong Action upon your desires. Wrong Action being to infringe upon someone else's property rights. Right Action being to use the desire to Rightfully Acquire your own copy of the coveted item.

What hope is there to preventing Coverting and Wrong Action when the government does it on a Mass scale. It is imprinted upon our psyche.

You can talk about right and wrong and knowing the difference... and I'll agree with you. People should be held accountable for their actions and wrongful actions. However, just as a child is imprinted and brainwashed with religion, it also absorbs that coveting and taking wrongful action to obtain the coveted item is okay - it sees it go on on a daily basis without repercussions.

cooperation should be the name of the game for the good of all

According to WHOM? And WHO judges what is good for me?

In any transaction, the name of the game should actually be... to the best YOU can get from mutual agreeable and uncoerced dealings.

Otherwise you turn me into my Brother's Keeper and force me to look after his interests in any deal we make. To Compromise.

Let me tell you about Compromise... there is no such thing. What you call Compromise actually means, one person gains at the expense of another. Because it stems from a Have giving up something tangible to a Have Not, while all the Have Not gave was their Desire - their coveting.

E.g. A company pays its workers $20 an hour. The workers WANT $30. The "Let's compromise" phrase it heard and suggested Compromise of $25 is bandied about. Maybe even agreed to.

All that happened was... the workers gave up their Desire - they lost nothing. But in reality and in a very real and tangible way, the company lost for no gain. It COST the company but not the worker.

THAT is what Compromise is when it is stripped of its Feel Good clothing.

Cooperation with one another to achieve individual development and goals is the best model for a successful, sustainable, community, IMHO

Why is this the "best model for a successful, sustainable, community"? What REASONING do you have to back up your general statement?

Doesn't this just turn me into my brother's keeper again. Needing to co-operate with him so he can achieve his goals and desires. Doesn't it turn me into a sacrificial animal giving up my life and efforts for the desires and goals of others? Placing Their Need above my own? And what is so righteous about that? Why is that a good thing?

Michael Ross

Mr. Ross, while I agree with some statements you have made, I disagree with the following:

Originally Posted by MichaelRoss

There is nothing wrong with Coveting, as long as you do not take Wrong Action upon your desires.

Isn't coveting the very seed that grows toward the fulfillment of the desire?

Can't a desire be fulfilled in a wrong way or a right way?

Originally Posted by S1ERRA

Mr. Ross, while I agree with some statements you have made, I disagree with the following:



Isn't coveting the very seed that grows toward the fulfillment of the desire?

If it were a "good" desire, then by all means, yes. The desire being discussed above is defined [by thefreedictionary.com] as a blameworthy/reprehensible desire.

What do you refer to when you say "the desire being described above"?

Originally Posted by S1ERRA

If it were a "good" desire, then by all means, yes. The desire being discussed above is defined [by thefreedictionary.com] as a blameworthy/reprehensible desire.

Did you know many of the Ideas Edison had were stolen from other people but he knew how to steal. He said as much. You can't blame him, he had little education. It was the workers he hired that did the inventing in many cases. He gave them the ideas which he stole. Now a man that lived during the same time names Emer Gates had twice as many patents and never stole a thing. He sat in a sound proof office thinking of ideas, according to Napoleon Hill. He used Creative Vision.

[Dien Rice]

Originally Posted by Joetrevison

Now a man that lived during the same time names Emer Gates had twice as many patents and never stole a thing. He sat in a sound proof office thinking of ideas, according to Napoleon Hill. He used Creative Vision.

Hi Joe,

Thanks for mentioning Elmer Gates...

I didn't know much about Elmer Gates, so just did some reading. Apparently part of "Think and Grow Rich" is based on Elmer Gates's work (in particular, part of chapter 12 on developing your creativity)...

Elmer Gates (as Joe says) was a prolific inventor, during the same time as Edison. He invented the foam fire extinguisher, plus a type of air-conditioner and many other inventions...

You can read many of his books online... Check out http://www.elmergates.com and also http://www.emeralda.com/gates/

However, Gates seemed to die in poverty (according to this page)... In this, he reminds me a little of Nikola Tesla - another incredibly brilliant inventor, who however wasn't always the best at business. Edison, on the other hand, was a very successful businessman and entrepreneur. Edison started General Electric - also known as GE - now the 7th largest company in America (according to the Fortune 500).

The lesson? Creativity is important, but you'll do best if you couple that with knowledge of business too!

- Dien