A tale of two webinars.

[GordonJ]

Originally Posted by photobob

As for me, I am burnt out on webinars.

Too much wasted time. Dependent on presentation quality. Too much intro and pitch time.

I MUCH prefer PDF.

Thanks for covering those webinars and reporting. I too like Bob Bly and was feeling a bit remorseful for missing it. Glad I did now.

Bob Schwarztrauber

Ben Suarez was fond of putting that quote in his books.

Bob, you bring up a very topical subject; BURNOUT. And I think we all are a bit burned out from this Covid-19 thing and all that came with it. I have found myself spending more time than I used to online, and it feels like I'm getting HAMMERED.

Especially by marketers.

I too,

AM SICK of things. Like this: Yesterday I bought a report. I had FIVE, F I V E, FRIGGIN upsells, downsells, cross sells, additional things...

By the third one I was silently cussing out the seller, by the fifth one, it was Not silent any longer.
I know, I know, it is the FUNNEL de facto on how to market, but I don't like it, I don't do it, I'm fed up with it and I think from now on, I'll take a pass on any of these known marketers (almost everyone on WarriorPlus, etc.).

Give me more AUTOMATIC PRODUCT VENDING sites, one page, brief description, if I want the dang thing, I'll put my money in and you can give me my product.
Maybe a side effect of my burnout is increased anger, and from a buyer, a guy who has spent a lot of money on things, just to learn, see, find out something...

My anger is translating into a wallet which sez; CLOSED FOR BUSINESS, or Gone Fishing.

Just taking the time to bang this out, helped with my anger issues.

So, thanks for reading.

A singed Gordon.

[MikePT]

Hi Gordon, happy 2021, stay healthy.

I don't like much teleseminars because usually I don't like much the person who gives them.

However a teleseminar made by you, I would attend.

I only really enjoy the old school masters, the old books where they have so much gold.

I have a theory:

Before the 80's/90's, there was no mass demand as the demand boomed recently in 2000's on content to learn direct respons (and maybe self-devlopment) books, so the author who wrote it before the 80's, the books had to be exceptionally good to sell, and he knew he wouldn't be rich from the book. So that is why the old school books are so good.

I read somewhere (i think was from Dan Kennedy) Napoleon Hill got rich, got broke and came back rich with the book Think and Grow Rich, that was Clement Stone that helped him recover from being broke.

However I assume Napoleon Hill as Dale Carnegie built a backend on their exceptional books, where was on th backend they got rich.

But those great books at that time had to be be exceptionally good to the market accept it, seems to me differently nowadays, where the quality marketing surpasses the quality of the books – and the market accepts it. I don't know.

However I like Bob Bly stuff, in particularly old books of him. On Bob Bly website he has free articles that I found them very good.

MikePT

[GordonJ]

Thanks MikePT,

I'm going to respond to your post in the post in RED. Then I'll have some comments to make, OK?

Originally Posted by MikePT

Hi Gordon, happy 2021, stay healthy.

I don't like much teleseminars because usually I don't like much the person who gives them.

However a teleseminar made by you, I would attend. May be coming soon.

I only really enjoy the old school masters, the old books where they have so much gold.

I have a theory:

Before the 80's/90's, there was no mass demand as the demand boomed recently in 2000's on content to learn direct respons (and maybe self-devlopment) books, so the author who wrote it before the 80's, the books had to be exceptionally good to sell, and he knew he wouldn't be rich from the book. So that is why the old school books are so good.

There was mass demand, the % per population of business seekers or more importantly as we defined them the OPPORTUNITY SEEKER, but the media was, of course different.


I read somewhere (i think was from Dan Kennedy) Napoleon Hill got rich, got broke and came back rich with the book Think and Grow Rich, that was Clement Stone that helped him recover from being broke.

However I assume Napoleon Hill as Dale Carnegie built a backend on their exceptional books, where was on th backend they got rich.

Here is the thing, and this is truth, but for many, hard to swallow...the best thing these guys did was self-promote, and today, many of their little white lies (along with some whoppers) are regarded as Holy Grail. For example copywriters will take at face value when they read that an ad did X amount of dollars, or when a Marketer SAYS it did that amount, an ad pulled in 100 million dollars, and then it used or promulgated as a best selling ad to be followed.

There are many ads in the GREAT category that had to do with timing as much as the copy. Anyhow, my point is, be very cautious about accepting stats of who did what way back when.

Even the big name gurus of IM, may have fudged their early numbers, the fake it til you make it crowd, and some of us are old enough to remember their long gone videos saying as much.

But those great books at that time had to be be exceptionally good to the market accept it, seems to me differently nowadays, where the quality marketing surpasses the quality of the books – and the market accepts it. I don't know.

I don't think this is accurate. There were many, many best selling books in the 1970/80's which sold well, but the information was for crap. Like those many best selling Real Estate with no money down type BS.

However I like Bob Bly stuff, in particularly old books of him. On Bob Bly website he has free articles that I found them very good.

My thing with Bly is, he is both old world and is active today. He is current and stays up with the latest, whereas so many copywriting teachers rest on their glory days and we just don't know how any given ad did or didn't do.

See, I had access, and it was part of my job, when I worked for Ben Suarez at SCI to go into the Seed World room, where a billion dollars of ads lived, where I could actually SEE for myself, how the tests varied, what worked and what didn't.

This coupled with their obsession for knowing the competition, and being on thousands of mailing lists, gave me a day by day view of real time results. Then, when I consulted with Green Tree Press, I went over Bud Weckesser ads which produced more millions of dollars of results.

I am of the school, semi-trust but double verify. And I know there is a lot of BS slung around the results of old school masters too.

MikePT

I get your point.

But what had to be better back then wasn't the content (the book, report or newsletter) it was the PROMOTION.

In fact in Real Life Simulations the product was never around, it was only the promotion for it and people made real money decisions based on that alone. It was the difference between a focus group one could bank on vs a group that was compliant and said what they thought you wanted to hear.

Today, people have gone funnel crazy.

Upsell, downsell, cross sell all at the moment of initial purchase, and I think it keeps many an IMer comfy in their two bedroom apt.

Coupled with Covid-19 restrictions, we have pent up anger, often displaced, but mine seeps out of my mental seems when I have to wade through five pages of sales pitches to get a product I paid for.

Yes, sure, of course and I know. It is what the Gurus tell you to do.

But I won't.

I don't want/need too.

And neither do you if you know how to set things up without all the slop and mess and you let time do the heavy lifting for you.

I may be done buying anything for awhile. My current attention is back on TOLL positions as taught by Harvey Brody, I just haven't found anyone who has (for me) a better model.

One man band. A little help from wife and daughter. In CONTROL, FOR DECADES and doing millions of dollars in business. A desk in his home. A telephone, a computer.

NO website. No funnel. No lists. Just buyers who have to go through him and gladly do, because he makes them money with his products.

If you or anyone has something better for me to look at, I'd love to know about it, eh?

Gordon

[MikePT]

Thanks, as always, for the detailed reply Gordon.

But what had to be better back then wasn't the content (the book, report or newsletter) it was the PROMOTION.

Ok. So, for what I understand the promotion had to be very good.

However, if I take stuff from Earl Nightgale or even Napoelon Hill, I found a LOT of substance. I take a book of John Caples on direct response, and probably each chapter has more substance that of many or these today "gurus" entire courses. I can be wrong, I am not actualized enough to say it.

Maybe the present "biz opp market" is more lazy, less selective, BUT have more money to spend and it is easier to buy information today that before.


I don't think this is accurate. There were many, many best selling books in the 1970/80's which sold well, but the information was for crap. Like those many best selling Real Estate with no money down type BS.

Ok, but on 60's and ages before I believe the quality of the content was much better.

MikePT