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[Ankesh]

Why is it 0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9
instead of 0-1-2-4-3-7-6-5-9-8 ?

(Yes there is a meaning behind the numeric symbols. But hardly anyone knows the inherent "meaning" yet everyone has the same inherent "value" attached to these numerals. I find it very interesting how these symbols work because of tradition. Cult / religious leaders know that symbols last even after people have forgotten the meaning! Very few businesses have discovered this yet.)

"Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song?"
- Steven Wright


Anyways, forget about it because that is not as interesting as:

Oh, and to be even more Nit Picky... there is Only One Way To Make Money. It goes by many different names but it is still the same one way. Understand this - and associated incorrect word usage - is often the difference between those with large amounts of money and those without. Know what that one way is?

You can't leave that as a puzzle Michael! Do tell us what the way is please.

And you dear Ankesh can not leave your puzzle unsolved.
You've piqued my curiosity...I would love to know just
what is the meaning behind the numeric symbols?
Carol

Originally Posted by Ankesh

Why is it 0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9
instead of 0-1-2-4-3-7-6-5-9-8 ?

(Yes there is a meaning behind the numeric symbols. But hardly anyone knows the inherent "meaning" yet everyone has the same inherent "value" attached to these numerals. I find it very interesting how these symbols work because of tradition. Cult / religious leaders know that symbols last even after people have forgotten the meaning! Very few businesses have discovered this yet.)

"Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song?"
- Steven Wright


Anyways, forget about it because that is not as interesting as:



You can't leave that as a puzzle Michael! Do tell us what the way is please.

Ankesh,

Thanks for Asking about the Meaning of numbers - why they are Those numbers and not some other figures.

Certainly, the same can be Asked of words. Why do was say Floor, for example, instead of Wobstan? Why Aqua instead of Ooba? And so on.

I am Not certain on All words. Just some. Based on their Ancient meanings and the like. Car being short for Carriage; Sky coming from old words for Clouds - which you could understand as the peasants of an Occupied English Isle asked their Occupiers what they called That - as they pointed up to the sky - and the Occupiers saw Clouds and gave Their word for clouds. But why did They have that word? You'd need to delve back into that. And there are those who Do.

For interest, read this about Guy Fawkes to see where we get the word Guy from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes

With numbers, as we know them, I can Imagine a start from the Roman Numerals days. Where a One was I and Two was II - as they looked to be written representatives of the physical. And I can see how this representation could Slowly change appearance under different writing styles - much like how language can change due to Bastardising words (and English Is a Bastradised language).

But to more Important things...

The whole world revolves around VALUE. The business of making money is all about having a VALUE for VALUE exchange. Or to sum that up in one word... TRADE.

I TRADE my labor for money. I TRADE my money for Goods. If I buy a property and rent it out, I TRADE accommodation for Money. If I rent property I TRADE my money for accommodation.

The business of making money is all about having a VALUE for VALUE exchange - TRADING.

Michael Ross

[Ankesh]

Originally Posted by Carol

And you dear Ankesh can not leave your puzzle unsolved.
You've piqued my curiosity...I would love to know just
what is the meaning behind the numeric symbols?
Carol

Thanks for asking Carol
I'll try to answer the puzzle in a round-about fashion - because I think it'll make more sense that way. It may get a bit looong though.

But before that, let me answer Jim.

Originally Posted by James Anthony

Oh, geeze, not this. They're numbers - just numbers - nothing more - nothing less.

Jim - I'm not saying that numbers have magical powers or can predict stuff. They are numbers just as you are a person. But are you just a person - nothing more nothing less?

No. You are made of bones and muscles. Hundred millionss of neurons give you your own unique thought process and identity. There are layers to you that can't be seen - that are hidden.

Similarly, there are layers behind these numbers - hidden meanings. More than what meets the eye.

--Beginning of round-about explanation--

Paul Ekman studied faces. He researched various world cultures and found something that surprised the scientific community at the time. He found that it doesn't matter where people are from, what religion or culture they follow - their facial expressions for corresponding emotions are the same.

A happy person in USA will have the same look as a happy person in the forests of Amazon.

Cultures have very little influence on our facial expressions.

And similarly, cultures have very little influence on our "tones" too. (Language evolved from tones.)

Originally Posted by MichaelRoss

Certainly, the same can be Asked of words. Why do was say Floor, for example, instead of Wobstan? Why Aqua instead of Ooba? And so on.

If you are bilingual - you'll find that many words sound the same in different languages.

They are not so same that you'll understand the meaning without learning the language. But they use certain same "phonemes." (Phoneme = smallest unit of speech sound.)

For eg: this amazed me when I was doing research on phonemes: Almost all the languages of the world have the phonetic sound |M| in the word mother.

French : Mere
German : Mutter
Hindi : Maji
Urdu : Ammee
English : Mom, Mummy, Mother
Italian: Madre
Portuguese: Mãe
Albanian: Mëmë; Nënë; Burim; Kryemurgeshë
Belarusan: matka
Serbian: Majka
Dutch: Moeder; Moer
Estonian: Ema
Frisian: Emo, Emä, Kantaäiti, Äiti
Greek: Màna
Hawaiian: Makuahine

There are exceptions <bummer>:
Hungarian: Anya, Fu

But the exceptions are few.

Some people call Sanskrit the purest language because each phoneme in Sanskrit has a specific meaning.

In Sanskrit, we find that phoneme |M| stands for "me" or "mine."

Do you now understand why a child's first spoken word is usually "mum" or "maa"?

(The child doesn't understand why s/he uses |M| to call her/his mother - just as we don't understand how our brains work. These facial features as well as phonetic tones are ingrained in our brains from before birth.)

-

Let us look at how numbers sound in 3 different languages:

English - French - Hindi

One - Un - Ek
Two - Deux - Do
Three - Trois - Teen
Four - Quatre - Chaar
Five - Cinq - Paanch
Six - Six - Che
Seven - Sept - Saat
Eight - Huit - Aath
Nine - Neuf - Naw

Can you see the similarities?

(I don't know what each phoneme in each number denote - I haven't done research in that. But it is clear that they do have a hidden meaning.)

(To read more about phonemes and their meanings, go to this website by master linguist Margaret Magnus:
http://www.conknet.com/~mmagnus/
Its very heavy reading - not for everyone. But some people might find it very interesting.)

--

That is the sound of the numbers. But what about the 1-2-3-4? Do they have a story too?

You bet.

Ok - I googled to find a term I could use to explain the numeric-symbols. And I found this site in the process. This site gives a better explanation than I could possibly give:

http://www.geocities.com/rmlyra/Numbers.html

Hope you find this stuff as fascinating as I do.

Ankesh,

Thanks for tossing this in.

Ages ago I saw a doco on words. And the HasBeen Drips Under Pressure (Experts) has traced back our First word for water as being Aqua.

Now, assuming those Scientists who study Mitopchindrial DNA are correct, we All came from the same tribe somewhere in Africa. Hence, all our languages have their Root in that First language. And, just like the Pitcan Islanders, we bastardise our first language into Similar Sounding, but Different words. Hence, the reason why the word for Mother has a similarness about it no matter which Language you look at.

There are also Groups of Languages - such as the Germanic Familiy of Languages.

Another Doco showed how the Chinese Written Language was originally formed. When Emperor Thingy wouold write a Character on a plaque that could be carried around. And as his Troops marches along, all day they saw the new Character on a plaque on the back of the soldier in front. And how the Characters are Abstract representations of the real - such as how the character for Man sort of looks like a Man.

Going back... why we should ahve chosen words like Aqua and something similar to Mother, and other such words is really Unanswerable. We just did. Welcome to that state of ISNESS once again.

Michael Ross

[Ankesh]

Thanks for posting your thoughts Michael.

So there are 2 theories for language:

1. They originated from one same place - a tribe in Africa - where all other humans come from...
2. They originated from different places - but because the brain patterns are same, they sound the same.

We obviously can't go back in time to find the exact answer. But the present can show us light.

New words.
Slangs.

Margaret Magnus did this experiment once. She made up some words that had no meaning. And asked different people to guess what these words meant. And the answers were very similar.

This is very interesting: How do we understand the meaning of made-up words in Dr. Seuss's books?
http://www.conknet.com/~mmagnus/Suess.html

New words originate from their intended phonetic group.

--

I understand what you say about ISness Michael. And I'm not trying to find a unified theory that explains everything. More questions will popup for every question we find an answer to.

But its fun - atleast for me - to find out what makes us tick.

Finding such patterns of language or emotions or facial features will help us become better commnicators too.